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Poster: light into ashes Date: Feb 23, 2012 9:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

The market's been "saturated" for years - they've kept on a very regular schedule of about 6 releases a year for several years now. (Though the flood of individual E72 releases now might be cutting into deadheads' pocketbooks this year...)

They might feel that non-circulating shows wouldn't be much of a "splash" - Lemieux said once that the Feb 68 Lake Tahoe release didn't sell well.
I think, for them, show quality takes precedence over what's circulating (at least, so they say) - the procedure seems to be, pick a year that hasn't been done in a while, and choose from a shortlist of several top shows. It's very rare that something non-circulating can slip in there; generally when they find something new & overlooked in the Vault & get excited about it.

I just wonder if there's a maximum number of potential buyers for ANY show, or if, for the general public, the year even matters that much. Will a '74 show sell faster than a '77? Would a '90 outsell them both? Or is the ceiling the same for almost anything? Sales mysteries...

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Poster: high flow Date: Feb 23, 2012 10:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

Interesting point.

I think it's very possible 90's shows could outsell 70's shows. Simply due to the sheer size of the live audiences of that decade.

The "I was there" factor cannot be overlooked. The reviews on this site reflect that phenom to some extent. IMO, there is much more "I was there"-ing in reviews of shows from the 1990's than any other era.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Feb 24, 2012 4:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

I think that is absolutely it and if their marketing people have any chops at all this should be obvious. Not only is that where the numbers are (people who saw them in the 90's), that demographic is fast approaching the age where sitting at home getting nostalgic for their rock and roll days becomes a major life activity - geezerhood, precisely. There's your market.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Feb 23, 2012 10:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

SO, should they strike a deal with DSO to double package the original GD show with the DSO show that someone saw last week? jboy liner notes for limited editions?

I was told to expect an email - what happened?

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Feb 23, 2012 11:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

I thought of that too - I agree lots of people would buy a '90s show just because "I saw them that year!"

And yet, there haven't been many '90s releases, compared to all the '70s ones. I'm sure lots of folks are asking them to release more '90s stuff, too - that was practically the first thing brought up in Lemieux's last videocast.
They do try to spread releases around different years, though.

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Poster: gratefuldiver Date: Feb 24, 2012 8:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

I don't know how successful it was from a sales perspective, but Pearl Jam released CDs of what seemed like every other show for a couple years...years in which PJ were *not* in their prime. I like Pearl Jam, and I've heard one or two of those CDs (borrowed from people who went to that specific show). And I can't imagine anyone buying one for any other reason. Shoots, look how many 5-star reviews are posted on IA for bad-to-mediocre GD shows from the 90s simply because the reviewer attended the show. I think that High Flow (not to be confused with Even Flow) is onto something. This could be the next big move for Rhino: The 90s Series. Heaven help the fools!

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 24, 2012 8:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

Not to start a fight with EVERYONE that's agreed thus far, but I think the simple facts DO matter.

We need the data on "I was there..." vs "is it ANY good?"

My strongly held view is the 90s shows are so bad that there isn't a sustainable market, and in fact, this thread largely supports it (the opening premise).

Under the assumption that you milk it til it's completely dry, they will eventually try everything, but I won't be surprised in latter era shows continue to be in the minority.

I know that all the folks I turned on to the DEAD sometimes ask for ones they went to, but they rarely if ever BUY one...once they listen to the "free one" the voice of Fozzy Bear (thanks, SDH) is too much for them...

Well, sample size of six, and counting (yes, P value fans, I ignore any exceptions to my rule).

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Feb 24, 2012 10:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

I agree (shudder). For the folks who went to shows in the 90's, not many became so enamored with the band that they are eagerly sufing the 'net hoping for news of the latest release. There are exceptions, and many of them have found their way to this sad repository of wasted brain cells, but I feel the number of folks who would actually put down money on these shows is shrinking in direct proportion to the speed at which their memory of the shows they did see also fades. If they had been able to release the shows immediately after they were played (like many bands do now), they would have made a killing (mainly bacause it seemed that the finacial liquidity of audiences rose fairly quickly in the latter years). This creates a sticky situation for the folks at Rhino. Expense of creating and distributing a release vs. size of target audience. I think they figured that Europe 72 had the widest range of potential buyers (along with amazing source material), being one of the best known tours, but now how do they gauge the marketplace? Would it be profitable to put together a full 77 set? What is the best way to pinpoint shows that equal sales?. The recent membership releases seem to be an attempt to cast as wide a net as possible, trying to satisfy as many folks as possible by offering a wide range of shows. Tough call for the folks that hold the key.

This post was modified by SomeDarkHollow on 2012-02-24 18:51:49

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Feb 24, 2012 9:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

"My strongly held view is the 90s shows are so bad that there isn't a sustainable market"

While i don't listen to them as often any longer there were some very good shows in '89-'90 and I think the Without A Net release is still an excellent live compilation from that era. However when i first found this place, the only show that i immediately sought out from that release was 3-29-90. I didn't feel the need to grab every show represented on that disc. This is in contrast to the more famous runs from the Fillmore East '71, Fillmore West '69 and Europe '72.

So i think single shows from an era will sell about the same and the demand from any era is not all that different. However those special runs seem to only be in your era and a few months beyond.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 24, 2012 11:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

Yeah, it's funny, but one old friend with which I have re-connected is a huge "any LIVE fascimile is adequate" (ie, DSO/Furth/Phil&Friends/etc), just admitted the other day "hey...those disks you sent of 68, they really were outstanding, and 71?! Damn..." blah, blah, blah; the friend went on to say, "I haven't listened to the post 77 shows since..." (she initially wanted a copy of every show we went to, or she went to, after I stopped, which meant 77 thru late 80s...I directed her here to access this handful of shows, BTW).

Hmm--maybe Bob would prefer it if I just shut up about the early era; I may be single-handedly narrowing the market.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Feb 24, 2012 11:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

While there may be many things you can do with one hand, I doubt affecting the market is one of them.



(I figure its been too long without some prepubescent innuendo)

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 24, 2012 1:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

The way I figure it, with how little I have to actually contribute here, after the approximately 5 substantive posts are accounted for (of the 10,000 +), it's ALWAYS time for...yes, "prepubescent innuendo"

Rob?

This one has your name all over it...





[damn...I just can't move him off that even 6000!?]

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Poster: rastamon Date: Feb 24, 2012 2:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

Robs at 6000? looks like time for a bad darkstar..no, the worst of is no phun. Think I'll watch a weird movie, Naked Lunch, William Tell plays an off hand role and missus ungratefully dead - ow

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Poster: high flow Date: Feb 28, 2012 12:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

"I was there" always muddies the water when it comes to evaluating "is it any good". That is why so many average-to-poor '90's shows have 5-star ratings in the archive.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 28, 2012 2:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

Damn--for a minute I thought you were Rob sneaking in a post WAY down the Big Board...

;)

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Feb 24, 2012 5:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

"I just wonder if there's a maximum number of potential buyers for ANY show, or if, for the general public, the year even matters that much."

I think this is exactly the issue and the maximum number is not very big. I think some people will be more drawn to one year vs. the next, however for any given year the number ends up being about the same. I think that is what the subscription series for the last volume of Road Trips and now for Dave's Picks is telling you. There is a very small group that buys everything (i did not purchase the subscription and my Mosque show is stamped with a number around 7000 so that tells you about what the upper limit for subscription sales could be) and a larger group that is more selective but sales are probably not that far off from show to show.

However this does not really get to your original question. I think the answer to why E72 sold so much faster than Dave's Pick 1 or the DP subscription is that overall this remains a niche market that is not bringing many new fans so the single shows are nice but as you say we already had them and in this case we already had a copy that was almost as good as the release. So the only way to really sell something in a niche market is to appeal to the very core of the niche. Seems to me they have done this successfully on two occasions and there are a lot of similarities between the two items.

1. Both were limited edition releases of a famous run of shows.
2. Both were mastered from multi-track recordings and what circulated from these shows were primarily 2-track sbds.
3. Both runs of shows were famous because they were the basis of the 2 live albums that probably turned more people into deadheads than any other event until the popularity of In The Dark.

So while i agree that more people went to shows in the late '80s and '90s, there are no "events" like Fillmore West '69 or Europe '72 during that era. Therefore all you are left with are single shows releases that will probably sell just like the ones from May '77.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Feb 24, 2012 12:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

Actually there's at least one '90s "event" - I think a box of the Nassau 1990 shows is pretty much inevitable, and will do very well. The "Formerly the Warlocks" set from '89 seemed to make a little splash.

Dead.net does seem to be angling for the "collector's item" aspect, first with bonus discs, then with limited editions. Supremely annoying...

The various copies of 5/25/77 on the Archive have over 150,000 streams/downloads, so clearly the number of people who want to BUY even a "classic" show is just a small fraction in comparison.

That said, since many of the people on this forum are "the core of the niche," we may not be representative of the true Dead market. Put another way, 11,000 people who are NOT on this forum bought 5/25/77...

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Poster: wisconsindead Date: Feb 24, 2012 6:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 700 left

maybe i should've read your post first. I said essentially the same thing, only you phrased my thoughts so much better.